Best Writing Tips I Ever Got, Part Two
Okay, I was GOING to post about a tip I got, an unintentional one from Dan Raspler, that changed EVERYTHING about how I look at story. He didn't mean it as a tip, it was sheer exasperation.
It's awesome. Trust me.
We'll get to that.
Instead, I'm going to talk about something else, something that's probably more vital. If I had to convey ONE idea to new writers, this would be it. I'm not wise, I'm not the smartest person on Earth, and I can't seem to waterski properly. But this much I know is true.
Okay, just like all of you, I started comics when I was young, and I would sometimes become frustrated with elements of a story. A character might have their dignity taken away, or behave in a way that I felt lessened them. These are characters I love, how DARE they behave in ways less perfect than I envisioned for them?
Naturally, I immediately blamed the writer. Again, how DARE they ruin this character? It's obvious that they hate Scuba-man (or whoever) AND their audience (me) and why was I still giving them money, anyway?
Later, years later sometimes, it would turn out that oftentimes, I couldn't even REMEMBER most stories I'd read featuring these beloved characters, but, again, oftentimes, I could remember quite well the ones that made me mad, or upset, or distressed. In hindsight, these were some of my favorite stories.
I got a lightning bolt to the head one day, while reading an interview with the brilliant musician, Laurie Anderson. I'm just typing here with no thought of order, so bear with me, and see if it knocks you on your ass like it did me.
First, a sense memory experiment. Think of the most expensive perfume or cologne you've ever smelled. You may not have loved it, but you can smell the wealth, the complexity. You know someone put it together with care and thought.
Now think of the cheapest, Wal-mart-iest crap fragrance of any kind...that crazy ass sickly sweet lavender bath shit your grandma uses, or those nightmarish lilac perfumes they ought to sell at gas stations.
Why does one grab your attention, make you snap your head up, and why is the one that's pure sweet, and imitating a fragrance that's one of nature's most beautiful, almost unbearable?
Here's why. Because, at the center of the expensive perfume, underneath the 'good' scents, there's a bad scent, intentionally placed. A smell that if that was all you got in the bottle, would likely make you throw up. There's a deliberate element in there designed to slap you right across the goddamn chops, and before you can be appalled, the 'good' mix of scents takes root.
On the other hand, all Wal-Mart thinks you want in your bath ball is an overpowering floral smell. And it turns out, we don't really want that.
There's a lot of science in scent technology, obviously, and it goes beyond me, but one thought is, in nature, it's the bad smell that warns you, that grabs your attention, or perhaps, if you're lucky, makes you want to mate, you dirty bastard. That scent is the one that attacks your animal brain in a way endless bouquets of gardenias never will.
Laurie, never the easiest or most pandering musician, applies that theory to her music, thus:
" "A few years ago, Brian began collecting little perfume bottles, just because he liked them. Then he began mixing the scents, making these incredible combinations. Now occasionally he goes to a big factory to do it. So when we did our last record, rather than sitting around afterwards talking about how we mix that, or who played bass, he took us all to a perfume factory, where we made a perfume. The secret of a really good perfume, Brian taught us, is that at its very core is something very, very stinky - civet - because the purpose of the nose is danger, to alert you. After that happens, then you can put on the pleasant smells. But first - wake up! So that's one of the things we've paid attention to in making this record, that at its core is something that's repellent, because those are the things that interest me."
I read that and felt like I'd been shot in the face. Of fucking COURSE. Of COURSE you have to have that element, that note, that scent, that makes the reader say...holy CRAP, what is THAT?
As a writer, I can assure you, that reaction is a thousand times better than someone saying, "well, that was nice!"
There's an old sales joke about the difference between a pig and a chicken in a ham and egg breakfast. The chicken is involved, but the pig is COMMITTED.
Same with writing. How many stories have you read, where in the end, you felt that the writer was pandering to you, giving you exactly what the message boarders say they want, giving you the empty calories of, "Here, this is what you asked for. I've written it just as requested."
Does anyone really want that? Lavender foaming bath balls, stinking so bad you have to leave the house, that's what that is.
I'm a writer. It's my job to lie and cheat and deceive you. To trick you, to upset you, to make you feel bad at times, to make you dislike the characters we both care about so much. Anyone can give you an X-men issue full of 22 pages of fastball specials and Wolverine killing robots. It takes a writer to have Wolverine do something stupid or awful, and let you feel a little bit of that, and still (hopefully) bring you back.
This is my number one complaint about/piece of advice for fan-ficcers. Of the few pieces I have read, there was often quite a lot of talent there, but just as often, the story was all about providing that dream crossover, that hoped-for battle between two beloved characters--in short, they were event stories, written to scratch an itch, certainly, but with little concern to the bigger issues that make a story more than a fun fight scene or superpowered orgy...the things that make a story something that engages the mind and emotions and heart.
A perfect example is Marc Andreyko's Manhunter. This book hasn't sold in the numbers it deserves, but the people who DO read the book (including just about every pro I know) love it DEEPLY. They love it with ten times the white hot fury that a whole raft of better selling books engender. And why? Because Marc is a WRITER, and Kate, the Manhunter, is flawed to pieces, makes stupid mistakes at least once an issue, and is vastly more real than any number of caped stiffs in the Top Twenty. And that makes his stuff more interesting than a great many fairy-laden webcomics, superhero trappings or not.
It can't all be flowers. I often hear would-be writers pitching their dream DC or Marvel project, and I can't get away from the cloying scent of lilacs in abundance. Yes, we want our heroes to triumph, but if there isn't also the possibility, of failure, of temptation, then I submit this question to you--what in god's name is the point? If you truly love your readers, you will do them the very great favor of poking them with an ice pick, just a little, when they reach down to smell your roses.
I can't tell you how many times, at the beginning of a story that is deliberately set up to make the reader think CONCEPT A, I get letters saying, "Hey! You did CONCEPT A! You've ruined this book!" Then, when the story shows that CONCEPT A is in fact PLOT TWIST B, and not CONCEPT A at all, well, let's just say I live for that shit.
Readers are smart...they know who has come through for them in the past, and who left them hanging. Even if I don't care for a Grant Morrison first issue at all (pretty rare occurance, to be frank, as I love Grant), his history with me says that he's likely screwing with me, messing deliberately with my expectations, putting the smell of the wolf urine in the middle of the lovely garden of floral scents. The thing is, you have to keep that promise with readers. If you go dark where there previously was light, you have to make it work, you have to be truthful. That's the difference between stories you damn well know are mandated because of a corporate crossover, and those that are tended by a gardner who cares.
This is why I don't usually lose my noodle if CreamSodaGirl has a story arc that seems wildly out of character. Because, in the end, most of the best stories I've ever read made me unhappy or uncomfortable at some point. You can do formula stories, full of fanservice (I have a different definition for this word than most...to me, it's not about boobies), but in the end, I think you've likely cheated your readers out of their hard-earned money, in which case, shame on you.
By all means, when you write your stories, pick some flowers. Pick the prettiest, the most aromatic, if you like. But keep in mind, you might want to carefully place a wasp's nest just in the shadows.
Hey, this is very BEING THERE!
Let me finish with the same warning. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I just showed up in this chair one day and started typing until I found sentences I like. My advice to you is that you never, and I mean EVER, take my advice. Go, write, be, have lunch, dawdle, write some more, write, write, write some more, and ignore the crazy Oregon redhead.
But you might give some small thought to putting a rabid rat in your next birthday bouquet.
Gail
It's awesome. Trust me.
We'll get to that.
Instead, I'm going to talk about something else, something that's probably more vital. If I had to convey ONE idea to new writers, this would be it. I'm not wise, I'm not the smartest person on Earth, and I can't seem to waterski properly. But this much I know is true.
Okay, just like all of you, I started comics when I was young, and I would sometimes become frustrated with elements of a story. A character might have their dignity taken away, or behave in a way that I felt lessened them. These are characters I love, how DARE they behave in ways less perfect than I envisioned for them?
Naturally, I immediately blamed the writer. Again, how DARE they ruin this character? It's obvious that they hate Scuba-man (or whoever) AND their audience (me) and why was I still giving them money, anyway?
Later, years later sometimes, it would turn out that oftentimes, I couldn't even REMEMBER most stories I'd read featuring these beloved characters, but, again, oftentimes, I could remember quite well the ones that made me mad, or upset, or distressed. In hindsight, these were some of my favorite stories.
I got a lightning bolt to the head one day, while reading an interview with the brilliant musician, Laurie Anderson. I'm just typing here with no thought of order, so bear with me, and see if it knocks you on your ass like it did me.
First, a sense memory experiment. Think of the most expensive perfume or cologne you've ever smelled. You may not have loved it, but you can smell the wealth, the complexity. You know someone put it together with care and thought.
Now think of the cheapest, Wal-mart-iest crap fragrance of any kind...that crazy ass sickly sweet lavender bath shit your grandma uses, or those nightmarish lilac perfumes they ought to sell at gas stations.
Why does one grab your attention, make you snap your head up, and why is the one that's pure sweet, and imitating a fragrance that's one of nature's most beautiful, almost unbearable?
Here's why. Because, at the center of the expensive perfume, underneath the 'good' scents, there's a bad scent, intentionally placed. A smell that if that was all you got in the bottle, would likely make you throw up. There's a deliberate element in there designed to slap you right across the goddamn chops, and before you can be appalled, the 'good' mix of scents takes root.
On the other hand, all Wal-Mart thinks you want in your bath ball is an overpowering floral smell. And it turns out, we don't really want that.
There's a lot of science in scent technology, obviously, and it goes beyond me, but one thought is, in nature, it's the bad smell that warns you, that grabs your attention, or perhaps, if you're lucky, makes you want to mate, you dirty bastard. That scent is the one that attacks your animal brain in a way endless bouquets of gardenias never will.
Laurie, never the easiest or most pandering musician, applies that theory to her music, thus:
" "A few years ago, Brian began collecting little perfume bottles, just because he liked them. Then he began mixing the scents, making these incredible combinations. Now occasionally he goes to a big factory to do it. So when we did our last record, rather than sitting around afterwards talking about how we mix that, or who played bass, he took us all to a perfume factory, where we made a perfume. The secret of a really good perfume, Brian taught us, is that at its very core is something very, very stinky - civet - because the purpose of the nose is danger, to alert you. After that happens, then you can put on the pleasant smells. But first - wake up! So that's one of the things we've paid attention to in making this record, that at its core is something that's repellent, because those are the things that interest me."
I read that and felt like I'd been shot in the face. Of fucking COURSE. Of COURSE you have to have that element, that note, that scent, that makes the reader say...holy CRAP, what is THAT?
As a writer, I can assure you, that reaction is a thousand times better than someone saying, "well, that was nice!"
There's an old sales joke about the difference between a pig and a chicken in a ham and egg breakfast. The chicken is involved, but the pig is COMMITTED.
Same with writing. How many stories have you read, where in the end, you felt that the writer was pandering to you, giving you exactly what the message boarders say they want, giving you the empty calories of, "Here, this is what you asked for. I've written it just as requested."
Does anyone really want that? Lavender foaming bath balls, stinking so bad you have to leave the house, that's what that is.
I'm a writer. It's my job to lie and cheat and deceive you. To trick you, to upset you, to make you feel bad at times, to make you dislike the characters we both care about so much. Anyone can give you an X-men issue full of 22 pages of fastball specials and Wolverine killing robots. It takes a writer to have Wolverine do something stupid or awful, and let you feel a little bit of that, and still (hopefully) bring you back.
This is my number one complaint about/piece of advice for fan-ficcers. Of the few pieces I have read, there was often quite a lot of talent there, but just as often, the story was all about providing that dream crossover, that hoped-for battle between two beloved characters--in short, they were event stories, written to scratch an itch, certainly, but with little concern to the bigger issues that make a story more than a fun fight scene or superpowered orgy...the things that make a story something that engages the mind and emotions and heart.
A perfect example is Marc Andreyko's Manhunter. This book hasn't sold in the numbers it deserves, but the people who DO read the book (including just about every pro I know) love it DEEPLY. They love it with ten times the white hot fury that a whole raft of better selling books engender. And why? Because Marc is a WRITER, and Kate, the Manhunter, is flawed to pieces, makes stupid mistakes at least once an issue, and is vastly more real than any number of caped stiffs in the Top Twenty. And that makes his stuff more interesting than a great many fairy-laden webcomics, superhero trappings or not.
It can't all be flowers. I often hear would-be writers pitching their dream DC or Marvel project, and I can't get away from the cloying scent of lilacs in abundance. Yes, we want our heroes to triumph, but if there isn't also the possibility, of failure, of temptation, then I submit this question to you--what in god's name is the point? If you truly love your readers, you will do them the very great favor of poking them with an ice pick, just a little, when they reach down to smell your roses.
I can't tell you how many times, at the beginning of a story that is deliberately set up to make the reader think CONCEPT A, I get letters saying, "Hey! You did CONCEPT A! You've ruined this book!" Then, when the story shows that CONCEPT A is in fact PLOT TWIST B, and not CONCEPT A at all, well, let's just say I live for that shit.
Readers are smart...they know who has come through for them in the past, and who left them hanging. Even if I don't care for a Grant Morrison first issue at all (pretty rare occurance, to be frank, as I love Grant), his history with me says that he's likely screwing with me, messing deliberately with my expectations, putting the smell of the wolf urine in the middle of the lovely garden of floral scents. The thing is, you have to keep that promise with readers. If you go dark where there previously was light, you have to make it work, you have to be truthful. That's the difference between stories you damn well know are mandated because of a corporate crossover, and those that are tended by a gardner who cares.
This is why I don't usually lose my noodle if CreamSodaGirl has a story arc that seems wildly out of character. Because, in the end, most of the best stories I've ever read made me unhappy or uncomfortable at some point. You can do formula stories, full of fanservice (I have a different definition for this word than most...to me, it's not about boobies), but in the end, I think you've likely cheated your readers out of their hard-earned money, in which case, shame on you.
By all means, when you write your stories, pick some flowers. Pick the prettiest, the most aromatic, if you like. But keep in mind, you might want to carefully place a wasp's nest just in the shadows.
Hey, this is very BEING THERE!
Let me finish with the same warning. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I just showed up in this chair one day and started typing until I found sentences I like. My advice to you is that you never, and I mean EVER, take my advice. Go, write, be, have lunch, dawdle, write some more, write, write, write some more, and ignore the crazy Oregon redhead.
But you might give some small thought to putting a rabid rat in your next birthday bouquet.
Gail

71 Comments:
At 6:06 AM,
Sharpandpointies said…
Read Steven Erikson.
Vicious, nasty, terrible things happen to characters in his stories. And yet the bad guys still get what's coming to them (though rarely in the way you expect, and rarely 'completely'), and things...seem to balance in the end.
Those who die...still die. But there is dignity. There is honor. And there is usually vindication, sooner or later, though it might take several books.
In one book, characters struggle against impossible odds to succeed in saving lives. Their plotline weeps with desperation through the entire book, and they continue through a combination of cunning and desperate will.
In the end, they are betrayed and murdered. Horribly. But they succeed in what they attempt.
In a later book, their betrayer comes to utter and complete ruin.
It makes you weep. And it is something you will never, ever forget.
Ted
At 6:18 AM,
Gail Simone said…
Okay, you've intrigued me. What book do I start with?
Gail
At 6:21 AM,
Afroman said…
Gail, great tip.
I feel that i have heard this somewhere. That Perfume is made from very nasty smelling things. Either, great tip very inspiring.
Also, i feel my blog isn't used to it's full "use" i might just hop on a WRITE!
At 6:26 AM,
Gail Simone said…
Bless you, my son, you understand. :)
Gail
At 10:11 AM,
Sharpandpointies said…
Gardens of the Moon.
From what I understand, you might end up having to order them from Canada after book 3. The US may only be publishing the first three.
Be warned - Erikson has large books, and assumes his readers can figure out things for themselves.
At 12:26 AM,
matterconsumer said…
Would tend to agree.
As with anything though repetition can become overwhelming. So any storytelling approach that is done over and over becomes stale over time.
At 10:53 AM,
Gail Simone said…
It's not so much an approach as a warning...that you might catch more flies with honey, but you keep those flies a lot more interested if you shoot them with bug spray when they come down to feed.
Gail
At 11:03 AM,
Gail Simone said…
Once in a while, anyways!
Gail
At 12:01 PM,
Advisor said…
I think that the show Rescue Me seems to follow a similar philosophy. Sometimes I almost don't want to watch out of fear of what might happen next. Can't anything good ever happen to those characters? Yet, whenever I tune in, I'm there until the end and waiting for more.
Sometimes those "stings" reveal traits or ideas that are simply much more interesting to me than the standard conflict.
Then again, I don't think I can really identify with perfect characters leading perfect lives, especially when that makes all of the characters the same. Characters are much more fun when they aren't just "Superman-clone" or "Batman-clone" but rather maybe just a little bit like someone you know.
At 12:04 PM,
Parker said…
Thanks Gail, your consultant fee is on its way!
At 12:11 PM,
Shane Bailey said…
So I should add some links to horrible sites in my Meanwhile column? Is that what your saying?
Seriously, this and the post on writing below both offer great advice. They'll be included in the rounds this week. Glad to see you blogging Gail!
At 12:25 PM,
Elayne said…
I've ignored your advice on writing for, oh, around nine years now. It's pure coincidence that my job sucks out my soul so much that I no longer have the energy for fiction writing. The real reason has, of course, been your constant encouragement. :)
Good to see you blogging, by the way! Now get working on those BoP scripts so I can put some sushi on the table. :) :)
At 3:24 PM,
The Letter D said…
Very insightful.
I think writers don't consider this, because we secretly want to be applauded for our cleverness, creatvity, etc. Very few of us have the ego to withstand risking losing a reader or not pleasing someone.
At 5:29 PM,
Melanie said…
Well, I'm definitely going to take a closer look at the perfumes I like...
Just kidding. That was awesome advice. Thanks a lot and very much appreciated.
You had me cracking up there. Thanks.
At 9:39 AM,
Xocolotl said…
Excellent point. The most intense, engaging author I've read is Matthew Woordring Stover--precisely because his characters start flawed, and then he drags them as far down as they can go. And they don't get happily after ever, just a sort of content equilibrium. It's absolutely wonderful.
At 3:26 PM,
Terry said…
2nd the reccy on Steven Erikson.
Well presented, and this reader and would-be writer completely agrees with everything you laid out.
At 8:22 PM,
Skullduggery said…
"I'm a writer. It's my job to lie and cheat and deceive you. To trick you, to upset you, to make you feel bad at times, to make you dislike the characters we both care about so much."
I have to disagree with that.
I don't think it is your job to 'upset' me. You can annoy me. You can disappoint me (not with the quality of your work - because obviously that is bad), and you can shock me. But upsetting me ... that really isn't the best of 'marketing' plans.
I will liken this to dating someone. You can be dating someone and she (I say she as I am male) might do some things to annoy me. And maybe even at times upset me. And sometimes you can let those things roll off (depends on the quality of the relationshp how much you'll take). But eventually, if the 'upsetting' continues, you're going to walk away because you just get tired of it frankly.
It is that way with comics. There is only so much I can take as far as a creator 'thumbing their nose' at me. Especially if it is a case of shock for shock's sake.
The problem with the comics market (and by problem, I don't mean a bad thing) is that there is so much to offer. In a way, sort of like dating someone. There are so many fish in the sea. If one doesn't work, you can recast your line and there are plenty of others to bite. With comics, it is even easier to recast the line bcause you don't have to invest nearly as much. By that I mean there isn't as much effort to acquire a comic. I can just walk into any comic stores and pick up what I want (I might have to special order a few things, but it isn't as though I have to 'woo' the books).
So my point is (went a long way to get here) ... if you're upsetting me, I'm eventually going to walk out on you. I may 'love' the characters, but if I feel like you're butchering them (in my eyes), then I'm going to leave. Good memories are better than watching bad things happen real-time.
And just for an example ... Spider-Man has been my absolute favorite super-hero since I was knee-high to a grasshopper.
I was already a little disappointed in the direction the wall-crawler's books were going, and when Sins Past hit, that ticked me off to the point of walking out. I walked out on my absolute favorite character. And I still haven't gone back. Marvel hasn't collected any Amazing Spider-Man, Sensational Spider-Man, or Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man money from me since that day (or Unlimited Spider-Man ... do they even publish that anymore?).
I read comics. I don't 'collect' them. Did that a long long long time ago. But I finally figured out that buying 'crap' I didn't like just to keep a run going was stupid.
I haven't missed an issue of BoP since I started picking it up with number 8. That means everyone involved with it has been doing a good job with it so far. I hope that remains consistent.
At 12:29 PM,
tvanbruggen said…
This makes so much sense. Would I read a story if it didn't captivate me, take me to places I don't necessarily want to go and challenge me mentally to achieve what the characters need to achive in the story? Probably not.
This is one of the reasons I was a fan of Devin Grayson's run on NIGHTWING. She challenged my understanding of the character, gave him situations and circumstances that required more of him than usual. Were there times when he acted out of character? Yes. . . BUT, Devin then showed him dealing with circumstances of that action.
It made me think of the times where I had done or said something that, under normal circumstances, I would never have said or done.
The wonderful thing about stories (and comics especially) is seeing characters we've grown to love being challenged and growing. That's probably why I shy away from the Superman and Batman stories, and go more towards the Dick Graysons/Teen Titans/Bird of Prey characters that have been given a little leeway to change and grow over the years.
At 1:05 PM,
Joe said…
Good call on Manhunter. Marc's writing kicks many and various asses.
At 2:09 PM,
Steve said…
I 3rd the recommendation for Steven Erikson. I just finished vol. 6 (The Bonehunters) and it improves on the previous 5 volumes.
At 5:29 PM,
Stacy said…
I finally did read this article. I just needed some quiet time to do so, as opposted to printing it out as I said on YABS. Interesting observations about writing, writers, and readers.
I am glad you wrote this.
At 5:40 PM,
Evil Wilma said…
Wow. I LIKE lavender scented foaming bath balls.
AND Manhunter.
Go figure.
-Evil Wilma
At 6:53 PM,
Crisman said…
Very good article. The analogy of the perfume works brilliantly. And you're right about the stories that hook people. I've read stories and watched shows where I've hated what was happening to the characters and all I wanted to do was look away.
But I watched anyway.
At 9:15 PM,
Papa Bear said…
The most satisfying stories for me to write have all kinds of cock-ups and calamities for the protagonists. I think that's what made even writing an Andromeda novel enjoyable for me -- nobody's perfect, sometimes they're downright stupid about stuff, but in the finish they come through, sore and batttered and knowing more than they started out with. With any luck the reader's better off for the experience too.
At 5:30 AM,
Allan McPherson said…
Gail,
Very true. Its the same thing in cooking (my area of personal expression). The catch is, of course, balancing the bitter with the sweet. Perfume is a really great example of the importance of correct proportion of elements to create a quality end product.
As a cook I think of something as "simple" as veal stock. A real quality stock is all about balancing the heaviness of your bones, the sweet from the carrots and onion off set by the bitter qualities of the celery. If done correctly you never pick up on any of the individual elements, except the "meat" flavour. And that's the trick, by dilluting the "meat" with other elements you end up creating a product that to the palate tastes more meaty than if it had been a pure extract.
Wow, that's a fine howdy-do, eh? Any way in writing it is the same, at least as far a moving the plot and creating tension. Contrast is also the key way of expressing a character's personality. A good, moral person, will seem little more than banal if they exist in a world where nothing bad can or does happen. Its like blue cheese and port. Almost opposite flavours and textures yet its a classic because each seems more pure in the other's presence.
Mind you, it can tilt too far to the other side. Some times a title like Daredevil for example seems to little more than a exercise in how miserable our lead can be made. It almost becomes self parody, you could rename it "Po' Matt."
--Allan
At 7:03 AM,
Teenage Bamm-Bamm said…
Enough about writing already. When are you going to tell me what I can do with my hair?
At 10:33 AM,
shiva said…
I find it very sad and pathetic that writers who are trying to get into the business are criticized for writing an "event" story or about a dream team-up between characters.
Frankly, the comics u=industry as a whole needs MORE of that.... not less of it.
And frankly the soap opera approach of destroying characters to build them up again is far too predictable and speaks more to the LACK of creativity of the writers than their talent.
I'll take an event story over some ridiculous attempt at "break-down" to "build up" any day. I love a miller "Born Again" story as much as the next guy.... but the sad reality is that most writers can't pull it off.
They continue to fail and yet STILL keep trying. And what has it led to?
A darker DCU with more angst than ever before. More pain, more suffering, more drawn out storylines and decompression.
And I would say to Gail... I remember "event" stories FAR more than pathetic attempts at "redeeming" characters like Nightwing for example. Devin Grayson destroyed that character and failed to build him up again.
Yet we are to think that because her story looked and smelled like manure, we are supposed to respect that.... or god forbid... like it. Is the fact that I remember the garbage that I threw away yesterday but forget the filet mignon I ate last week really have some hidden deeper meaning?
Give me a break. In comics, 9 times out of ten.... garbage is garbage. When I hate a comic and comment on it..... it means I hate it. And will the passage of time change that? No. It won't. Never has. Never will.
There is unquestionable a HUGE rift between the attitude of writers and what fans want.
I remember something that Mark Waid once said.
He said that it is importnant to give readers what they NEED.... not what the WANT!
(And if I may be so bold... I think that is what Gail is getting at).
It is sort of like watching X-files for 7 years and demanding that the two ain characters get together.... all the while knowing that if they do get together.... the tension will be gone and the show might lose an essential element to what attracts people to it in the first place.
Thus, I DO understand the point that Gail is making..... but the mistake that MOST writers make is that they will use the excuse od trying to rock the boat..... to justify a complete change of character.
Devin Grayson's Nightwing is a prime example (and admittedly the worst). She abandoned the "soul" of Dick Grayson. It was not simply a case of creating a unique and engaging plot. She destroyed NW. She made him into everything that most of his fans hated. And she never rewarded him in the end. Three years of stories from her.... and NW ended up LOWER as both a hero and a person than where he started.
Most writers are not as talented as Gail. Gail does rock the boat... but she does not lose sight of what makes the characters interesting. She never abandons what makes the reader recognize the essence of the character.
Sadly, many writers do. And while I think that while Gail's advice is good advice for some.... it is a dangerous slippery slope... because followers of such approaches can also refer to it as justification for abandonment of character.
The approach clearly works for Gail.... but having said this.... Gail respects the character FIRST.... and then writes the story. Many other writers give priority to the STORY without regard to whether it fits the character.... or worse.... without a proper understanding of how that character would react in it.
I guess at the end of my little diatribe here.... I think it is really sad that a writer would take pride in creating a terrible story on the grounds that it is so terrible that people can't forget it.
But to each their own. I refuse to believe that giving fans what they WANT is such a bad thing from time to time.
At 10:43 AM,
Gail Simone said…
And thank you, Mister Jeff Parker, but since you already write better than I do, I owe YOU money, or something.
Everyone buy Agents of Atlas and Interman!
Gail
At 12:13 PM,
john siuntres said…
Oh sure Gail, you gotta WRITE something clever, couldn't save it for a podcast or something like that?
Oh no. I'll get 60 minutes of "DUHH..."
this blog has been sucking my lunch hour away, quit it.
At 10:14 AM,
StrangeNotions said…
Gail, while I love your writing I have to disagree. I only mention this out of coincidence having picked up and read "Street Justice" over the weekend, and the same thing you love, was what in the end made me dediced not to follow this title any further. The title charcter Kate, was exactly what you say makes a good stroy, flawed, with feet of clay, and I hated her. The longer I read, the more distaste I viewed her with, until by the end of the TPB, I felt as if I had wasted the money I spent. I found nothing redeeming or heroic in her portrayl, she was vain, petty, self centered, unpleasant, rude, and without a shred of compassion, even for her own child.
Maybe a good perfume does require a bit of bad odor, but when there is no swetness to it at all, how can you still cal it a perfume?
At 10:23 AM,
Scott said…
I don't think there's anything wrong with putting your characters through the ringer, or having them make bad decisions that come back to bite them in the ass, or even having them be anti-heroes with emphasis on the 'anti' because of how much you *wouldn't* want to hang out with them in real life. All of that can be the stuff of really good stories.
However, there are also times when writers have established characters do things that are *so* far out of character, that it's just plain bad writing. In that case, the pain (greater for those who probably have too much emotional investment in fictional characters, admittedly) comes not just from the sense that somebody's 'ruining' a character, but from the perception that the change in the character *doesn't make any sense in terms of the story*.
It's one thing when a Batman or a Daredevil or a Manhunter makes one questionable decision (alienate friends, suborn perjury, commit 1st degree murder in pursuit of justice) after another, if those decisions make sense in terms of their basic motivations and established flaws. It's quite another when a doctor decides to violate the Hippocratic Oath and deliberately allow someone to die because she wants to make some sort of statement against the violence committed by others in the name of fighting crime, but covers it up so there's not even a statement being made...
At 8:25 AM,
Tony Lee said…
But what about Raspler's advice???
Enquiring minds need to know!!!!
(I agree with everything you say, by the way m'dear!)
T
At 12:29 AM,
David N. Scott said…
Hey, this is great stuff. Thanks!
At 11:10 AM,
Lonely Fedora said…
I guess the problem is that writers need to balance the difference between Hack, pure entertainment writing that often has twists and turns that make absolutely no sense (Alias, as beautiful as it is, is an example of this-- please don't spoil past season 3.)
And, the other side, which is beautiful work of Joss Whedon, who successfully makes us hurt and suffer with characters, who take away people we love, but he -earns- that right. He -earns- the right to have that twist, he makes us -beleive- it, and in the end, no matter how -horrific- it is, we -want- it.
Angel closing the doors, Illyria, Giles leaving, Joyce dying.. None of these were founded, but they -worked-. Why? That I think is the question to ask...
Meow.
mew :(
mew!
Rar :|
At 8:17 PM,
Lokirri said…
I just want to add my agreement to the Steven Erikson subject. Unfortunately, Erikson does not have popular support like authors such as Robert Jordon, and Stephen Donaldson but that is often the way of things that are truly individual and simply brilliant.
Erikson hasn't created an interesting story, he has created a complex and contridictory world, that mirrors our own in subtle and unsubtle ways. He has a talent for making you re-consider your own morals, ethics and look on life. Pure genius!
Loki
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Jason said…
didn't knock me off me ass but it did hit me!
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0000000 said…
Where'd that Douglas Adams quotation go? Ah, here it is:
"Making it up?" said Marvin, swivelling his head in a parody of astonishment, "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
At 4:36 PM,
0000000 said…
(eaten by Blogger the first time)
"Making it up?" said Marvin, swivelling his head in a parody of astonishment, "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
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This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
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